tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post6406710653254724260..comments2023-05-24T09:41:52.181-04:00Comments on Running In the Yard Next Door: Sick to My Stomach, Again. . .Craighttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-82100368012815469742011-11-12T22:39:58.608-05:002011-11-12T22:39:58.608-05:00May you never have need to find out ....May you never have need to find out ....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-58832476967597174542011-11-11T21:59:30.349-05:002011-11-11T21:59:30.349-05:00Jeni - Thanks again for stopping by. The 'clo...<b>Jeni</b> - Thanks again for stopping by. The 'closer' perspective that you and Lime bring is interesting, and helpful for my understanding.<br /><br />As I understand it, State College is pretty much a college town, and only a college town, unlike most of the other Big Ten schools. And as successful as the football team has been there for the past half-century or so, it's not hard to imagine that the coaches would be like regional royalty there (and coach Paterno's 'squeaky-clean' rep extends far beyond Happy Valley). <br /><br />And of course, PSU would hardly be unique in (at least seeming to be) valuing athletics above academics. You'd have a hard time getting 100,000 people to pay $75 apiece to watch math majors solve equations, if you know what I mean. . .<br /><br />So yeah, the whole 'power/charisma' thing. Pretty intimidating to stand against it, I imagine. . . You know what I'm wondering about? Why Sandusky 'retired' in 1999. He was all-but-anointed as JoePa's designated successor, but then, out of the blue, he walked away. Which, in hindsight, would make a lot more sense, knowing what we know now. But the grad-asst/kid-in-the-shower thing was in 2002. Did he get caught in '99 and got covered-up for?<br /><br />Ack. I don't really want to think this deeply on it; really, I don't. . .<br /><br /><b>Xavier</b> - And thank you for sharing that story. It really is encouraging to hear stories of people going past their fear to do the right thing, and strengthens the notion in me that I could do likewise, if I had to. . .Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-1479425801126203712011-11-11T21:06:50.539-05:002011-11-11T21:06:50.539-05:00While I am not at liberty to give specifics on the...While I am not at liberty to give specifics on the one time I had to make a call I can share some of an instance I was 'participant' in. It was somewhat similar to this report with a twist or two. I walked in on an adult preparing to take liberties on a buddy in a locker-room shower. I hesitated for a moment, nearly thinking of backing out and just reporting it. Then I realized that if I had been a bit quicker to the shower that might have been me instead of my buddy. <br /><br />Fight or flight, I quietly walked up behind the adult and clocked him good. My buddy went nuts on the dazed creep and I had to pull him off after a few mins. With the power and charisma thing we were about to be charged with assault when other youths stepped forward, finally feeling free to speak up. <br /><br />No one in my 'real' life knows of this other than my mother. And he's no longer a buddy, my face reminds him too much of that day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-37160614351314214492011-11-11T15:13:16.831-05:002011-11-11T15:13:16.831-05:00Thanks for coming back, Lime. I am enjoying the b...Thanks for coming back, <b>Lime</b>. I am enjoying the back-and-forth; that's how we sharpen our thinking, and I appreciate you taking the time. . .<br /><br />As far as our former leader and catching him 'in the act', he was 'caught' numerous times at small, nagging things that eventually added up to a troublesome pattern - things as petty as cheating at poker or telling dirty jokes, or the time he was too drunk to show up for a talk he was supposed to give (those are all things I experienced directly, along with an odd 'meanness' that was startlingly dissonant from his more 'public' face; others may have had more 'insight-giving' experiences). I should say that I knew him for many years as nothing but admirable and inspiring; only in the last year or two did things start 'spinning out of control'.<br /><br />And again, our first impulse was to 'wave it off', or excuse it, because he was so 'special', and we'd known him for so long as admirable and inspiring. But once the whistle finally blew, we found out that what we'd seen was just the tip of the iceberg.<br /><br />It is an interesting question as to how the law, which was almost certainly written with elementary/secondary teachers/students in mind, would apply to college educators. . .<br /><br />Thanks for the link; I've seen it. . .<br /><br /><b>Jeni</b>, I am honored by the thoroughness of your comment. In order to do it justice, I'll need to return later. . .Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-10165655314284602592011-11-11T14:30:27.399-05:002011-11-11T14:30:27.399-05:00Suldog referred me to your blog in his comments th...Suldog referred me to your blog in his comments this a.m. on my post about this situation and I want to thank you for a very introspective piece on this mess. And yes, that is what it is -one HUGE MESS! <br /><br />I can fully understand what you said about your neighbor, about the other very charismatic person you knew too -as I know from first-hand experience how when things along these lines happen to people we thought we knew well and respected -it does shake our world and not just a little bit either! <br /><br />Jerry Sandusky definitely was a man with connections and power -lots and lots of both -in the State College area. I am an alumni of Penn State University and I live about 35 miles from there, plus I have worked both on and off campus over the years too so I have a tiny bit of familiarity with the power factor and the connections that arise from anyone being involved in the glorious football program at PSU. And yes, I've also always been a huge fan of Penn State football -Penn State anything really -and especially have admired Coach Paterno over the many years too. No, I don't know him or Mr. Sandusky personally, nothing like that, but someone with the reputation Paterno has around these hills -he was notorious for being "Squeaky clean" it does boggle the mind that he got embroiled in this whole thing.<br />This past week has been one of tumult with the arraignment, then Paterno's resignation, followed by the Board of Trustees' firing him and of Pres. Spanier's dismissal as well. The student riots following the latter two events -well, sad to say those type of responses to many things by the students is something that gets my dander up almost as much as the whole other stuff does! Any excuse to drink and create havoc, do damage to others property has almost become the norm in State College of late.<br /><br />As I wrote in my own post, this whole thing angers me and saddens me -greatly -on so many different levels. As LIME pointed out though, the law in Pennsylvania is such that ANYONE working in the educational/social services/medical community having information that even hints at child abuse/sexual abuse and the like, is obligated to report that immediately to Child Protective Services/the police. No exceptions! That was one of the mantras that was reiterated in my coursework at Penn State as my degree is in Rehab Education/Counseling.<br />I especially appreciated your description too though of how people -especially coaches -can get so thoroughly wrapped up in the "game" that they don't see anything but that. Much as I also love the sport(s) one of my frequent complaints in our school district has always been that money can rarely be found for things that push education but can always be located when the student athletes need/want things. (Think sports ranks higher than regular school supplies train of thought there.)<br />But anyway, I apologize for taking this much space but wanted to tell you that you are not alone in the way you are looking at this whole issue and to thank you too for putting your thoughts out in here in a reasonable, well-thought out post. Penn State, the school, will recover, so will the Football program -eventually too. But the cost right now -undefinable -because of the toll for those young boys and the harm caused them over so many years.Jenihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16425701332785470116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-54154643604916962522011-11-11T14:24:10.048-05:002011-11-11T14:24:10.048-05:00in case you're interested, here's the indi...in case you're interested, here's the indictment.<br /><br />http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf<br /><br />also, i understand the reporting reluctance of people who were not eyewitnesses but the rand jury does not find all of them credible witnesses and in fact states that one of them gave materially false testimony with regard to the incident.limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-66290559953379426422011-11-11T13:58:02.226-05:002011-11-11T13:58:02.226-05:00with regard to the former leader of your community...with regard to the former leader of your community, you don't relate a tale of catching him in flagrante, which is far different than merely having suspicions which you push out of your mind due to his charismatic personality.<br /><br />i hasten to add that in the state of PA teachers are under a law of mandatory reporting to the dept of public welfare if they reasonably suspect a child is being abused (they can be held liable for false reporting as well). granted that's more applicable to public and private school teachers dealing with minor students who would see such things on an every day basis. but i am curious how it applies to a collegiate level.limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-29121186189249104542011-11-11T13:18:48.543-05:002011-11-11T13:18:48.543-05:00And going back a couple comments, I was invoking t...And going back a couple comments, I was invoking the former president also in part to question the way that 'important people' are often given a pass because of their eminent wonderful-ness on other accounts. That was certainly true of President Clinton; it was true of our community's former leader; and it's possible that it was also true of Jerry Sandusky. . .Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-3379114219372955692011-11-11T12:36:25.928-05:002011-11-11T12:36:25.928-05:00I actually agree that Jerry Sandusky isn't rea...I actually agree that Jerry Sandusky isn't really a <i>direct</i> outcome of the Sexual Revolution. But some of the 'enabling attitudes' (ie, toward porn, perhaps) are. Returning to my previous comment, a social environment has come about in which many, if not most, of the 'social restraints' on sexual behavior (the 'control rods', if you will) have been removed. And that has made situations like this one more possible. . .<br /><br />I applaud you for your intervention. Really. That's a great example to me, and I thank you for sharing it.<br /><br />Obviously, you'd want to think that a naked man, um, 'in the throes' wouldn't present much of a threat, and that a basic intervention, on the order of, "What the hell are you doing, coach? Stop that!" would be eminently possible. When I imagine myself in that scenario, that's about how I imagine myself responding, and that's what virtually every commenter I've heard would advocate. But without actually being there, I just can't say with absolute certainty what I'd do, and I don't think they can, either. That's why I brought up my experience with the former leader of our community - as we all sit here, none of us knows what 'interpersonal power' dynamics might have been at work. Which, again, doesn't excuse his woeful lack of intervention; but it should give a bit of pause to those who think they know with moral certainty what they'd have done. . .Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-563116573462194782011-11-11T11:38:00.500-05:002011-11-11T11:38:00.500-05:00of course that last paragraph is in reference to t...of course that last paragraph is in reference to the grad assistant who walked away when he say what he saw. i've read the grand jury indictment. it's pretty unambiguous what he saw and the grand jury found him to be a highly credible witness. my husband thinks the grad assistant should be cut some slack because we don't know if he was threatened about going to the police. sorry, he should have intervened the second he could tell that child was being raped. he was 28 yrs old at the time he witness the attack. he wasn't some naive college freshman.limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-5528578503070749242011-11-11T11:34:27.311-05:002011-11-11T11:34:27.311-05:00sorry i don't see jerry sandusky as a result o...sorry i don't see jerry sandusky as a result of the sexual revolution. he is a monstrous pervert and monstrous perverts have existed as long as humans have. again, i am not condoning wild promiscuity with the idea of having no consequences but the promiscuity of the average "sexually liberated" person does not involve preying on those far weaker than oneself.<br /><br />the argument about a president's behavior putting himself and therefore a nation at risk of blackmail can hold some water. i had not considered that angle before.<br /><br />and i have continued to ponder your question of what would i have done. it's a fair question and good to take a hard look at oneself in that way. it came to mind this morning that i have in fact intervened in the past. it wasn't a child being raped by a man but there was a neighbor boy who was about 7 or 8 at the time. i was driving by when i saw that he had been knocked to the ground by a group of older teenagers who began to kick him. i pulled the car over, got out and approached them, not knowing if any of them had a weapon of any sort. when i told them to back away from the boy they tried to defend their actions by saying he started it by referring to them with a racial slur. i affirmed to them that what he had said was wrong but that it was wrong for a GROUP of much bigger people to beat the crap out of a child. i put the kid in my car and drove him home. during the ride i asked him if he had learned anything about the effect of his words and suggested he choose them more carefully in the future. honestly, that kid and his whole family were a bunch of bigoted pains in the butt. but he was still a child who was in need of safety and my conscious would not have let me sleep if i had continued driving by.<br /><br />i'm thinking taking on a single, naked man who clearly had no weapon for the sake of a child obviously being victimized would have been a no-brainer. sorry if that sounds sanctimonious of me. not my intention.limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-39514311168473492262011-11-11T09:06:16.913-05:002011-11-11T09:06:16.913-05:00Of course I understand the difference, but, as you...Of course I understand the difference, but, as you correctly note, my point was relative to the ways we train ourselves to 'look the other way' when maybe we shouldn't.<br /><br />I read a book about another former president who was given to, um, sexual adventures, and the author (who was certainly no prude) made the point that his behavior put the nation at risk of blackmail by hostile foreign governments.<br /><br />I guess another part of my point is that 'private morality' is often not as 'private' as we think it is, and that 'private' actions, especially when multiplied by a few million, have potentially disastrous social consequences.<br /><br />Richard Weaver wrote a book (back in the late '40s, I think) called <i>Ideas Have Consequences</i>. And I can't help thinking that Jerry Sandusky is just one more instance of the Sexual Revolution come home to roost. . .<br /><br />Sheesh. . . that got awfully sweeping, dinnit?Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-80292624560505747922011-11-11T00:13:40.922-05:002011-11-11T00:13:40.922-05:00i get your point about the laissez-aire attitude t...i get your point about the laissez-aire attitude toward the private lives of others and please understand i'm not justifying the bad behavior of a former prez. there is a difference in the two situations in that one involved a defenseless 10 yr old being victimized by a grown man who had him pinned against a wall. children depend on the adults around them to protect them when they cannot protect themselves. the other involved a consenting adult woman, albeit one who was in a position of being under authority and certainly having less power than the guy she was blowing. we can have the debate about being manipulated by someone in a position of great power or being intoxicated by being noticed, etc., but she WAS an adult and not being coerced physically to participate.limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-88474512380531600612011-11-10T16:42:53.397-05:002011-11-10T16:42:53.397-05:00Lime - Yup. One giant chain of 'I don't w...<b>Lime</b> - Yup. One giant chain of 'I don't want to rock the boat'. . . Of course, such a happy boat-rocker as yourself might see more clearly on this than I do. . . ;)<br /><br />I can't help thinking that we train ourselves (and each other) in these 'bad moral habits' with hundreds of similar choices whose consequences aren't so stark. Not often do our (seemingly small) moral failures result in boys being molested, or space shuttles exploding. . .<br /><br />And yet. . . How often did you hear, in regard to a certain former president, "As long as he does a good job, why should I care what he does with his private parts, or with whom?" The same thing might very well have been said of Jerry Sandusky. . .<br /><br /><b>Xavier</b> - Power/charisma are indeed hard to challenge. . .<br /><br />Of course, you are right; as has often been noted, if even one, out of all those people, had done more than the minimum possible, this would be a much different story.<br /><br /><i>"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."</i><br /><br />And you, like our friend Lime, are perhaps fonder of rocking the boat than most of us. . . ;)<br /><br />A quality, I should hasten to add, that I admire in you both. . .Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-54156415506119432602011-11-10T16:04:13.363-05:002011-11-10T16:04:13.363-05:00Well, my standing on this is a bit more clear/conc...Well, my standing on this is a bit more clear/concrete. Having been falsely accused of misconduct on more than one occasion my patience, or maybe tolerance, for letting real events slide does not exist. The fact of the matter, in my mind, is that all of the Penn State officials who were made aware are not simply negligent but rather were made accomplices by their refusal to simply make a phone call to those who could act. <br /><br />I have made that call on an occasion when others did not act, at no small cost to me. Charisma and power are hard to challenge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-24274434004375491412011-11-10T15:59:03.756-05:002011-11-10T15:59:03.756-05:00there was a loooong damn chain of failures and que...there was a loooong damn chain of failures and questionable decisions by so many people. it's just unfathomable that NO ONE pursued it. if one single person in that whole group had....<br /><br />and yes the "charitable" foundation which allowed him to prey more effectively on children already at risk. can the fires of hell burn hot enough?limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-28005160416706288622011-11-10T15:09:42.224-05:002011-11-10T15:09:42.224-05:00Suldog - Thank you; you are very kind.
Unk - Than...<b>Suldog</b> - Thank you; you are very kind.<br /><br /><b>Unk</b> - Thanks for taking the time to comment; I'm gratified that you like this humble blog.<br /><br />"Makes my soul hurt" is a very apt way to put it. . .<br /><br />I don't want to put more on his wife than is warranted, and nothing that's been said so far implicates her in the least. But wives often have a sense when their man is 'otherwise occupied'. . .<br /><br /><b>Skip</b> - You're welcome. I think. . .<br /><br /><b>Lime</b> - That sounds about right. . .<br /><br />You're right, of course - whatever anyone else might or might not have done, none of this happens if Jerry Sandusky doesn't rape little boys.<br /><br />That's a big part of the sadness of the whole thing, for me. It's just horrifying, the size of the crater, and the number of other people (hell, a whole <i>university</i>!) that got sucked into it, all because of one execrable asshole. . .<br /><br />And you know what's even more disturbing? It comes to seem that he set up the foundation (a <i>charitable</i> foundation!), at least partly for the purpose of providing himself a supply of boys. What kind of pervert even thinks that way?<br /><br /><b>Bijoux</b> - Believe me, I understand. . .Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041773404411751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-69202876502645662342011-11-10T11:26:51.987-05:002011-11-10T11:26:51.987-05:00Just too disturbing for me to comment on.Just too disturbing for me to comment on.Bijouxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05788630004051883635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-18361470245540673132011-11-10T11:23:58.785-05:002011-11-10T11:23:58.785-05:00whatever other complexities exist in the decision-...whatever other complexities exist in the decision-making processes of other people, can we at least agree that sandusky deserves to have his nads carved out with a rusty grapefruit spoon, stir-fried, and force fed back to him?<br /><br />forgive me.limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-89013278505863552972011-11-10T11:02:01.089-05:002011-11-10T11:02:01.089-05:00Thanks, CraigThanks, Craig(not necessarily your) Uncle Skiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02705753220273516841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-16553165539160365332011-11-10T08:49:34.910-05:002011-11-10T08:49:34.910-05:00I love your blog and have been reading it for quit...I love your blog and have been reading it for quite a while, but I rarely take the time to comment anywhere. But the Sandusky story just makes my soul hurt. I can't believe that is wife was so unaware and can't believe that university officials turned such a blind eye after hearing accusations for several years. How could they not think of the children first? I find myself mind-boggled by the question of "how does one abuse children in this manner?" What could have happened to that abuser as a youngster to bring on the behavior or what part of their brain has such a problem as to allow it.<br />So so sad.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06584582384619096479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3449788532742031864.post-70609077267352683052011-11-10T07:56:24.579-05:002011-11-10T07:56:24.579-05:00You've fairly much summed up my own feelings a...You've fairly much summed up my own feelings about the matter. It's a hideous shame, it probably could have been prevented from reaching the stage it did, and I'm not sinless enough to start ranting about how horrible some of those people may be.<br /><br />You succinctly summed up the mindset of a sports coach, of course. In my own small way, as a manager of softball teams, I'm both single-minded and simple-minded. As long as a guy can do a certain job for me, that's all of my focus. What he does off the field hardly concerns me, except that I'll celebrate his joys and commiserate concerning his sorrows, IF he brings them up.<br /><br />Lots to think about here. Good job.Suldoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07778845367184916684noreply@blogger.com